Piggy in the middle!

This topic contains 13 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by Profile photo of Janet Hanseth Janet Hanseth 6 years, 5 months ago.

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  • #72491
    Profile photo of Janet Hanseth
    Janet Hanseth
    Keymaster

    Originally posted by kelley on tribe.net.Hello Everyonebr/br/Following on from Philippas post on Cafe Style Formations (April 14th) Id love clarification on what happens with the middle dancer in a trio. I did a class on this whilst visiting the FCBD studio but my notes are a bit sketchy on this bit.br/We have the lead changes running smoothly from front/back leader to back/front leader but my understanding is that the middle person can invite either end to change places by not turning. eg if one of the end leaders has gone into egyptian 1/2 turns then if the middle person does not perform the 1/2 turn she will end up facing one of the leaders (the person following the middle person has not been cued to do the 1/2 turn so she will not have a problem as she is still following the middle person and also does not perform the 1/2 turn). So the end leader who initiated the 1/2 turn is now face to face with the middle person who is inviting the leader to swap places.br/br/I have four questions:br/br/1. Does the end leader have to accept the invitation or can she continue with her 1/2 turns and turn back to the lead ( thus all 3 dancers are again all facing in the same direction?br/br/2. If she does have to accept the invitation does she then initiate a move to pass and swap with the middle dancer?br/br/3. If the middle dancer initiates the invitation does she then force the original leader to trade places by initiating a passing move herself?br/br/4. Whoever initiates the passing move - should it be something simple and efficient so that the changeover happens quickly and smoothly and the dance continues with minimum interruption?br/br/My gut instinct tells me that if the middle dancer is inviting a lead change then the leader should be in the position to politely decline, but if she accepts then she would acknowledge that acceptance by initiating a passing move.br/br/We have been playing with this a lot as we now have a regular bistro booking with really tight space - so were getting loads of practise and Im thinking that if the middle person initiates the change of lead and then forces a lead change and goes in to an elaborate move to swap it all just takes too long, looks a bit messy as 2 people are interacting for quite a long period and the third person is left on the edge looking like a bit of a wallflower.br/br/Thanks in advancebr/Kelleybr/x

    #76688

    Anonymous

    Originally posted by kelley on tribe.net.Is anybody there?

    #76689

    Anonymous

    Originally posted by jesse on tribe.net.How tight is the space? Do you have the room to circle?

    #76690

    Anonymous

    Originally posted by Wendy on tribe.net.Im not sure Im understanding you correctly, but if the lead cues an egyptian half turn, the whole group should do the half turns. It does happen occasionally that the middle person is in a position to stay put and face the leader to initiate a switch, but its not a common practice, and in my experience its usually an accident. br/br/Your mileage may vary.

    #76691

    Anonymous

    Originally posted by jesse on tribe.net.I think, what the question is: how to you initiate a lead (formation) change from a cafe style formation.br/br/From my understanding, you generally wouldnt use the Egyptian 1/2 turn to do this, because its such a fast, flipping movement. br/br/Weve switched lead/formation in cafe style a few ways....the easiest way that Ive observed is for the lead dancer to step to either the Right or Left and take a step back (to the back of the formation) as the other 2/3 dancers step forward. br/br/The other way weve been using is a gradual turn (ie arabic/slow pivot turn) and as it turns, one dancer steps out to create a circle.br/br/I, of course, am no authority...........so would love to hear how other dancers practice cafe style formations!

    #76692

    Anonymous

    Originally posted by kelley on tribe.net.Not enough room to swing a cat!!!!!!

    #76693

    Anonymous

    Originally posted by kelley on tribe.net.Sorry - I dont think Ive explained myself very well.br/Im only using an egyptian as an example - sounds like not a good example. br/br/So Ill start again.... in the FCBD class we set up a narrow corridor to dance as a trio in a line - as if dancing between rows of tables. So not much room and exactly the situation we have to dance in at our real live restaurant.br/br/The purpose of the exercise was to change lead from one end to the other using either 1/2 turns or gradual turning moves. So if we have a line of 3 dancers A, B and C then it is Bs job to pass on any cues and information to the dancer behind her because of restricted sight lines. So if A is leading B passes the info on so that C knows what is happening and vice versa if C is leading. So far so good.br/br/For ease of explanation Ill stick to one scenario (but assume that A and C are interchangeable):-br/br/But..... we also learned that if A cued a 1/2 turn or gradual turn and if B did not follow the turn but remained in place (C would still be following B because the information has not passed down the line) then B would now be face to face with A and would therefore be inviting A to trade places. My understanding was that it is B that initiates an opportunity to trade places with one of the leaders rather than one of the leaders inviting B.br/br/So that is where my questions in the original post come in but in a nutshell does the leader have to trade places and if so what are the best moves to do this?br/br/My reason for asking is that in our classroom situation I introduced the concept of B being able to invite A or C to trade places and suggested we stick to simple moves to pass each other eg arabic pass back to back so that the swap was clean, easy and used minimal space and we could all then resume the dance as a new trio in a line with minimum fuss.br/However one of our dancers sees this as an opportunity to deliberately challenge A or C to swap and forces the swap by initiating a new and complicated move in order to trade places. Although it works - in that everyone follows it doesnt make it right.br/br/This just doesnt feel right to me as it does seem like a challenge and doesnt fit with my understanding and ethos of the dance.br/br/Hope that explains things better?br/Huge thanksbr/Kbr/xxx

    #76694

    Anonymous

    Originally posted by Wendy on tribe.net.okay, so, yeah, its not really Bs place to initiate a lead change. In the midst of a half turn or pivoting move, either A or C, whoever is in the lead, would choose to not complete the 1/2 turn or pivot, then facing C to initiate the lead change. Does that make sense?

    #76695

    Anonymous

    Originally posted by kelley on tribe.net.Yep - much more sense if that very last C is a B?br/br/So does it matter what move is used for the changeover?br/br/Thanks

    #76696

    Anonymous

    Originally posted by Wendy on tribe.net.oh right. if its A or C, theyd stay facing til B et al faced them. And you can use any move youd use to face and change leads. The only thing you dont want to do in cafe style is circle.

    #76697

    Anonymous

    Originally posted by Sandi on tribe.net.Im so confused. Its a bit of a shell game. All I can say is, it is usually one of the end leaders who will initiate a lead change, just as in a standard trio. The follower in the middle has the option to not turn in order to initiate a lead change, but happens rarely. The dynamicism of the cafe style format is to see the interaction of the leads flipping from one end to the other. If theres constant lead changing with the middle person, youre not getting that play.br/br/To reiterate, as a default, when a lead on one end faces in, the middle person and the lead switch places, which puts the middle person automatically in the lead of the group.

    #76698

    Anonymous

    Originally posted by kelley on tribe.net.Thanks so much ladies - Im nearly there!!!br/br/So, in the default situation either of the leads initiates the lead change with the middle person but on rare occasions the middle person might initiate a lead change. But to keep the dynamics of cafe style changing with the middle person should be kept to an absolute minimum.br/br/So - last question hopefully.br/br/Is it the person who initiates the change that decides which step to use to pass or does it become a neutral situation once face to face where either could could choose?

    #76699

    Anonymous

    Originally posted by Sandi on tribe.net.Like Wendy said, the middle person holding in place to change the lead is most likely an accident, but its doable.br/br/You dont really need to change moves to change leads. If youre doing any of the basic traveling/pivoting/half turning moves you can change leads with them, just like if you were changing leads in a duet. But yes, facing in causes the lead to be neutral.

    #76700

    Anonymous

    Originally posted by kelley on tribe.net.Thankyou all so much - especially Wendy and Sandi, thats really helped.br/Big hugsbr/xxx

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